Older Upscale/Luxury/Sporty Car

Posted awhile back, and was considering an M3, but had to drop my budget considerably, with school coming around soon.

So my budget is now around $14,000, and I'm mainly looking for an older upscale/sporty/luxury car.

Specifically cars from BMW, MB, Lexus, and Audi.

Cars such as:

BMW 3 series (93-99 only) or 5 series (only 97+) (no M, not enough $)

Lexus SC400 or LS400 (early to mid 90's)

Audi A4 (Can't afford newer S4, and can't find any older ones)


Four door or coupe doesn't matter, neither does Auto or Man. Speed is some concern, as I'd like something on par with my trucks performance (mid 15 1/4, 7 sec 0-60). However if the Interior and ride quality is so much better in something, I'd take a sacrifice in speed, as long as I can add the power later without too much trouble. Interior is important too(leather, power options, etc.)

I've seen both the SC and LS400, and really liked both (interior and quality), havn't driven either, but will soon. The performace is great, but not sure if they handle so well. Also rarely ever see a SC400 anyhwhere, so that's a huge plus.

BMW's are notorious for great ride quality, so I'll trust them on that, and the 328i's have great performance. I must say though, I wasn't that impressed with the interior, perhaps it was just the model i was in, (1999 318i) the convenince for the driver was nice, but, it all felt and looked kinda cheap (i didn't observe it for that long however). Also see a lot of BMW's, and not just the cheap ones, I see newer 330i's and 5 series all the time, but I guess it can only bring the cost down.

MB, they have so many confusing classes not sure where to look, but most people say just stick with BMW, so unless anyone has anyhting from MB that I'm looking for, please suggest.

Audi, A4's, these things have great interiors, and the Quattro is a huge plus, although the performance of these bores me, I think even the 1.8T pulls 0-60 in 9.5 secs, seems slow. Reliablity ratings scare me.

Perhaps something from Volvo or Acura? CL Type-S looked nice, but out of my price range, and don't really want a Legend (friend has one, excellent car, but don't want the same). Volvo 850 T5R, pretty good performance and standard features, but don't know much else.

Anyone have any other suggestions, thanks in advance.

The Lexus Sc400 is a good car. Also the Gs300 is a good four-door with descent power from it's 3.0 liter non-turbo Supra engine. It should be somewhat fast, and I think they look pretty good. The Acura is also a good car, and also descently fast. But if you want a good performing 2-door luxury coupe, go with the Lexus Sc400.

Dunno if you could swing it but try for a 540i

From what it seems like your main preferences are (good interior, uniqueness, reliability), I'd say the Lexus SC 400 is your best bet. The 3 Series and 5 Series are nice, but there are too many of them around, ditto for the MBs. The Audis are a bit less common, but the reliability is shaky.

yeah go with the lexus sc400 around here i can find 92, and 93 sc400's in very good condition for 4-5 k, and since you have around 14k to spend on the car, you would have about 9-10k in upgrades, get a nice system, rims, and other various engine upgrades

If it's between the E36 3-series ('91-'99) and the E39 5-series ('95-'03) it has to be the 5. I don't know if a 540i would be within your budget but a 528i isn't exactly underpowered and will be more economical. Nicer interior and more spacious than the E36 3-series.

However, with the new 3-series (E90) coming out, the second hand values of E46 3-series should take a hit. How much i don't know, but if you can find an E46 328i, coupe or sedan, that would be my top choice. Otherwise, go for an E39 5-series. Fine cars.

how 'bout a 98-99 infiniti Q45. it has a 4.1 v8 270 hp. they're on the heavy side but are said to do 0-60 in about 7 seconds. it's comparable to a Lexus LS400.

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//pictures/VEHICLE/1998/Infiniti/3832/005437-E.jpg
http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//pictures/VEHICLE/1998/Infiniti/3832/005478-E.jpg

Some of the greatest BMW interiors were in E30s and E46s. Some of the worst were E36s. For $14,000 you should be able to swing an E46 3series. It ranks right up there with the E39 and E34 5 series as my favorite Bimmer of all time.... well, except the E38 7-series, but i can't afford one of those yet. :)

I'll probably go with the Lexus, because of the cost, and Lexus reliablity. I like that all SC400's, didn't have any options, it was all pretty much standard, so all I need to find is the right condition, and color.

Anyone know if the 92's had a black interior? All I've seen is a smoke grey, and tan so far.

Why not consider the Subaru SVX? Sure it is a bit rare but since not many people have ever bought it in the first place in its production run you can get one in decent condition for as low as 3k US dollars. Sure it is a bit slower than the SC400, but the trade-off is having AWD. Despite the fact it might not have the best 0-60, which is roughly between 7.6-7.9 seconds, it is still able to achieve a top speed of 140mph, that is for 94 and above models with the governor, and as high as about 175mph without thanks to its hefty 3.3l 230hp flat6 that also gives a nice torque curve it can tackle windy roads, in the mist of almost all forms of weather. However you can always get slightly fast acceleration with the FWD models, which come with the governor since they started making them in 1994, but what would be the fun in having a FWD Subaru, I'm just kidding around it is all up to your preference.

As for luxuries, I think someone said it best that even though the outside might look Italian or one may consider even French like, with performance that is like an Audi or Mercedes, most seem to agree that the interior seems to be like something Jaguar would make. For 92-93 leather seating was standard until 1994 with automatic seat belts lasting until then as well (the 1993 models have not only an automatic seat belt but also a manual one that crosses that lap), with then the option of cloth which come in a nice velour pattern with fake leather edging which from I saw what others have stated is rather nice. All SVXs come with a felt lined on the roof, passenger side of the front and handle side of the doors. A moonroof and climate control system also comes standard with about all of them coming with a CD player, not to mention the standard cover that conceils it. The "window-within a window" design might either artistically impress or weird you out but it cannot be disputed that it does help prevent rain getting in when you are driving with the windows open, plus it does play a key role in giving the SVX that panoramic view and unless you order value meals through a drive-through it should not become that much of a problem.

Did I also mention Canadian models come with heated seats?

The only technically issues to really look out for are an over-heated transmission or one that is heading there, rear-wheel bearings and sometimes warped brake pads. The whole tranny debacle can be solved by either purchasing a $50 transmission cooler, or have a Subaru dealer fit one in. Then there is a route which I took which might be more expensive but is more worth it if you are planning to modify the car which is to buy an all aluminum radiator from PWR which now cost $500 US. You can also get a performance/ avoiding tranny problem way buy swapping the stock 4EAT for a shorter geared auto from a Legacy, Forester, WRX or go the route of installing a 5 speed manual from a Forester or WRX not to mention a 6 speed from a WRX STi. Someone is also experimenting with a 4EAT from a Legacy B4 with a sports shift with someone else contemplating installing 5-speed auto from a 2004+ Legacy 2.5 GT, I can let you know how that goes. As for aftermarket there is a ECU memory adapter add-on from a company called
ECUtune (http://www.ecutune.com/) which not only improves whp but also improves gas mileage and gives you the choice of using Plus gasoline, since the stock ECU makes the SVX only able to handling Premium. There is also approximately 3.8k turbocharger kit from a company called Forced Air Tech (http://www.forcedairtech.com/svx.html) , it doesn't come with an intercooler so they say it can deliver about an 80hp gain (which is debatable. However, there is a supercharger kit from ECUtune (http://www.ecutune.com/svx-stage3.htm) which is said to and will definitely deliver a 200-300hp increase depending on how much boost you want to give it, there is also a Stage II Nitros kit from the same company. There is also a bunch of other aftermarket upgrades from brake rotors, to fiberglass fronts (which would probably give enough space to mount an intercooler) with other exterior modifications as well, not to mention exhaust upgrades from Flatt Racing, Stebro and ones that can be welded together from Magnaflow, Flowmaster and other exhaust company parts. There is also I bunch of other mods that I did not mention in which most can be found
here. (http://store.yahoo.com/svx-motorsport-accessories/)

tan eather seated interior pic (probably from a 93):
http://www.mindspring.com/~jonfoulkes/Cars/SVX/comfort01.gif

pic of the console from the same SVX:
http://www.mindspring.com/~jonfoulkes/Cars/SVX/comfort02.gif

top overview of tan interior:
http://www.mindspring.com/~jonfoulkes/Cars/SVX/svx_interior_mini.jpeg

black interior:
http://www.neuro-tech.net/~ron/archives/svx/passenger%20view.jpg

picture sources.
http://www.mindspring.com/~jonfoulkes/Cars/SVX/SVXConvenience.html

http://www.mindspring.com/~jonfoulkes/Cars/SVX/SVXIntro.html

http://www.neuro-tech.net/~ron/archives/2003_11.html

What a nice find on the SVX, AWD is a definite plus, and the performance is fine, 15 secs 1/4 is good enough for me.

The window design intrigues me, but I don't fully understand it of the pictures I looked at. Any detailed pictures, or a better explanation maybe?

Car looks kinda funny, but I like how uniqie it is, the rear is nice, although the headlights are boring, but it has the sleeper look to it.

How about reliablity, I'm not sure about Subaru?

I'll do some more research on it, thanks for the info.

Oh and the Infinity looks great, I like those kinda low profile, mafia looks, like the Legend.

Great standard features (edmunds) and performance for it's size, however all I can find anywhere near my area (and budget) is a 1995, and I'm not sure how it performs.

What a nice find on the SVX, AWD is a definite plus, and the performance is fine, 15 secs 1/4 is good enough for me.

The window design intrigues me, but I don't fully understand it of the pictures I looked at. Any detailed pictures, or a better explanation maybe?

Car looks kinda funny, but I like how uniqie it is, the rear is nice, although the headlights are boring, but it has the sleeper look to it.

How about reliablity, I'm not sure about Subaru?

I'll do some more research on it, thanks for the info.


http://www.subaru-svx.net/photos/files/92SVX_Pimp/4673.jpg

If you mean by a better example of how the windows look here it is. What Subaru designers originally claimed at the time was when using these types of windows is that when they are open it is to make sure air smoothly travels into the car without buffeting or when air makes that pulsing pattern and noise when going into the car while it is traveling at high speeds. They also talked about how it helps prevent much rain, snow, mud, hail and other stuff (except for maybe really large hail stones that would be able to break your windows:icon16:) from getting into the car. I have actually driven in rain with the windows open and it does work, with maybe some water winding up on the top each of the door where the window lowered but not much else.

Also another main reason for the "window-within a window" or whatever you call it design was to also permit Subaru to make what essentially is about the only affordable production with a panoramic windows, not counting the Toyota Sera which was only sold in Japan. In other words the top half of the window is actually curved glass, which gives you a wide viewing angle but not to wide to the point of seeing the sun when it is above you, which it is probably when you are inside the Toyota Sera. Below is the best picture I found right now to show you how the top half of the window is curved.

http://www.neuro-tech.net/~ron/archives/svx/bizarre%20half-windows.jpg

The first picture source is from that blog which I got the black interior pic from.

The second one is from a individual's locker, or webpage where you store pictures on the site, from the SVX World Network (http://www.subaru-svx.net/) which is a forum where you can probably get most if not all your info you need from them since they are SVX gurus there or people who bordline on being fanatic about the SVX. Ok, I was kidding around about them being fanatic since most of them are open minded overall automotive enthusiasts but what I am trying to really say is they are incredibly knowledgeable about the workings, potential modifications and overall quirks of the SVX.

As for realiability other than the transmission and maybe the rear wheel bearings on some the SVX is an incredibly realiable car. The outside sheet metal is made from an aluminum with a zinc annodized coating so you don't have to worry about rust unless there has been a dent on the car which not only chipped through the paint but also the outside aluminum layer. However the engine is probably the strongest part of the SVX since there are a few people on the SVX forum that has had theirs for over 200k miles with most on the site averaging about 120k. This is great realiablity since the pistons are running on 10:1 compression, which of course raises question about applying serious boost to the car once forced induction is installed, but the person who is making the supercharging kit said that no problems occured when boosting it up to 7lbs. If you are unsure about this you can always swap in 9:5 pistons from an EJ25 or the "standard" Subaru 2.5l H4. As for the interior it is pretty much build very solidly with no loose plastic, except for maybe the little door thing that can conciel the console but that is even built more solidly than it could have been. The only common problem which occurs to some people who have bought a pre-owned SVX seems to be the inconvinience of have to give a little push to the motorized moonroof in order for it to come up and slide back unless you are going at about 20mph or above, strange :screwy:. Anyway, you can probably fix that by either applying grease on the track or having the moonroof motor re-built at a repair shop or something. I don't exactly know which is anyother good reason to go the SVX forum (http://www.subaru-svx.net/) that I told you about.

Btw, as for the dull looking headlights you can always opt for the JDM cleared cornered ones as seen here.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/195000-195999/195581_13_full.jpg

This pic comes from a this guy's cardomain (http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/195581/1) or soundomain (http://www.sounddomain.com/memberpage/195581) page of his modded SVX who is also a very involved member on the SVX World Network forum, let me know if there is a difference between the two.:biggrin:

I didn't even think of the SVX, that would be a really neat car for you. Especially when it comes to uniqueness. That also means it'd be really hard to find, though.

Sc430

Oh and the Infinity looks great, I like those kinda low profile, mafia looks, like the Legend.

Great standard features (edmunds) and performance for it's size, however all I can find anywhere near my area (and budget) is a 1995, and I'm not sure how it performs.
from what i've heard and read the Q45's up to 1996 are prone to blown head gaskets. supposedly the issue was resolved in 1997 when they changed the engine to the 4.1L. your best bet is a 97 or newer if you can swing it, otherwise i'd recommend that you keep looking.

Thanks, the Infinity will be hard to find a '97+, but It could turn up. THe SVX are pretty rare, but there's two availble to me (about 2 hours away), although it doesn't say whether it has AWD, which I'd prefer. Probably shoot them an e-mail.

Oh and an SC430, yeah right, way out of my price range, and that car looks pretty girly to me, maybe it's the look, or that it's the choice of female pop stars these days (Ashlee Simpson).

Well, good luck to hunting down for the car you want, whether it is an SVX, Infiniti, Lexus, BMW, MB or even Audi.

Just when looking into those two SVXs, make sure you keep a couple things in mind. Ask when and if the transmission was rebuild (usually happens to ones that are beyond 100k miles) or if it was ever fitted during a dealer re-call with a transmission cooler (which came stock with all 1995+ SVXs). Also, unless the SVX is a 96 or maybe even a 95+ (or depending on how the person values their 25th Anniversary edition 1993) make sure it is not over $8k CAD, in fact your average 92-94 should be $6k at most.

Go ask the members of the SVX forum I gave you for more info. I will also probably come back to this post to add more.

It is also a good idea to check for a slight or slightly more noticeable shake when applying the brakes to see if there are uneven brake pads or frozen calipers, which would make it justifiable to drive the price even lower. Also do not be surprised if the tranny does not shift or if you do not even notice it at all except for a slight bounce on the odometer at about 40mph and another at about 65-70mph (4th gear is more of an overdrive since you do not shift to that until about 110mph, but I am not exactly sure). This is of course if it still has the stock tranny and was not swapped with a Legacy, Forester or WRX one. But it is always a good idea to check to see if the tranny is not missing any shifts, even though this problem does not occur that often, I only heard about it once, it is good to check anyway.

Also, keep in mind if there is indeed any problem with the brakes it is probably better to go for aftermarket brake pads, rotors, calipers and ect. because of the fact that not only would they be cheaper than the stock ones, which would be expensive since the SVX is pretty rare car, but you can also probably get ones that perform better as well. This would also go for tranny replacement as well, if you are indeed willing to spend over $1000 to repair it in the first place, with the 4EAT and even 5 speed manuals (after all the fabricating) alternatives from the Legacy, Forest WRX and so on. However you can always take the overheated transmission to a repair shop to have it re-built or send it to even a transmission tuning place such as Level 10 (http://www.levelten.com/hydrosystem_import.htm) (among many other places, in which there are probably some allot closer to you) for recalibrating your tranny. You should also check for dried or torn seats among the other things which are usually for a used car, happy shopping.:smile:

i thought all subaru's were AWD. i'm surprised to hear the svx has a FWD version.

Ditto. Always thought they were all AWD. Still love the way they look though :)

Me three...i thought all Subaru's were AWD. that kind of disappoints me in a way. :(

You have to remember that before the Legacy, or what is considered in Australia as the second generation Liberty, with the exception of the 360, all Subarus models had AWD as an option or none at all, and even as late as the 90s with the Vivio, and even with the Pleo.

However as for the case for the SVX, since the FWD didn't have their inception until 1994 it shows that it was more of a last ditch effort to make a more affordable looking model that might sell more widely. But aside from the Japan rather than making the car seem more appealing it made people stay away from it even more by doing what most of you are clearly showing, alienating. Aside from slightly better initial acceleration there are no other advantages to owning this sort of model. However even though you might think of a FWD SVX as a mere shadow of itself, from what I heard it still has pretty good handling characteristics, with the difference being allot more understeer rather than a balance of some under and oversteer I suppose.